SPRINT! Getting the Monster Sprites Done

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By tamashihoshi 19 Oct 2016 14:49

Champion · 251 comments
Sanglorian wrote

Jemuar's face sprites, from tamashihoshi's sprite:
https://wiki.tuxemon.org/images/3/36/Jemuar_face_1.png
https://wiki.tuxemon.org/images/5/5c/Jemuar_face_2.png
(...)
Jemuar still needs a back sprite, which I'm hoping tamashihoshi will provide smile


I think a new facesprite would be cool instead of "recycling" the front sprite.
I hope I will find time to fix the time and create a backsprite.. but feel free to do it yourself, currently Im pretty slow again.


We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when. But I know we'll meet again some sunny day!

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By Sanglorian 20 Oct 2016 00:21

Champion · 498 comments
tamashihoshi wrote

I think a new facesprite would be cool instead of "recycling" the front sprite.
I hope I will find time to fix the time and create a backsprite.. but feel free to do it yourself, currently Im pretty slow again.

No worries, let's use these ones as a placeholder until someone makes new face sprites for Jemuar from scratch.

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By Sanglorian 20 Oct 2016 10:52

Champion · 498 comments

Okay, I've done back and face sprites for Heronquak and Eaglace, and a back sprite for Tweesher. That finishes off that set and brings us to 55 complete!

Drawing heavily from the front sprites by Levaine, based on art by DevilDman, based on designs by Leo!

7_by_levaine-dabti6h.png
Tweesher_back.png
Tweesher_face_1.png
Tweesher_face_2.png

8_by_levaine-dabti68.png
Heronquak_back.png
Heronquak_face_1.png
Heronquak_face_2.png

9_by_levaine-dabti61.png
Eaglace.png
Eaglace_face_1.png
Eaglace_face_2.png

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By Sanglorian 22 Oct 2016 08:22

Champion · 498 comments

Agnite_head.png

I finished off the face sprites for a few Catch Challenger creatures, adding another 6 to our total!
Capiti_small_24.png
Capiti_face_2.png

Criniothe_rmesmall_24.png
Criniotherme_face_2.png

Cowpignon_facel.png
Cowpignon_face_2.png

Flacono_small_face.png
Flacono_face_2.png

Cervix_face_1.png
Cervix_face_2.png

Hampotamos_face.png
Hampotamos_face_2.png

Edit:
And Nudimind:
Nudimind_back.png
Nudimind_face_1.png
Nudimind_face_2.png

Which finishes off another line, bringing it to 63!

EDIT 2:

And Trapsnap and Sapsnap faces, bringing it to 65!

Trapsnap_face_1.png
Trapsnap_face_2.png

Sapsnap_face_1.png
Sapsnap_face_2.png

EDIT 3:

Elofly_face_1.png
Elofly_face_2.png
Elowind_face_1.png
Elowind_face_2.png
Elostorm_face_1.png
Elostorm_face_2.png

EDIT 4:
Budaye, which I've made a prevolution of Bamboon (as well as Frondly, which I have a front sprite coming for soon).
Budaye_back.png

EDIT 5:
Agnidon
Agnidon_back.png
Agnigon_back.png

Last edited by Sanglorian (23 Oct 2016 09:08)

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By Sanglorian 30 Oct 2016 10:51

Champion · 498 comments

Done some faces and sprites, which finish off some other tuxemon for the project:

The Cardiling family:

Cardiling_back.png
Cardinale_back.png

The Chloragon family:

Chloragon_back.png
Sapragon_back.png

The Shybulb family:

Shybulb_back-Recovered.png
Narcileaf_face_1.png
Narcileaf_face_2.png

Tuxemon originals:

Pigabyte_face_1.png
Pigabyte_face_2.png

Propellercat_face_1.png
Propellercat_face_2.png

Drokoro_face_1.png
Drokoro_face_2.png


Catch Challenger monsters:

Chenipode_face_1.png
Chenipode_face_2.png

Cochini_face_1.png
Cochini_face_2.png

Coleorus_face_1.png
Coleorus_face_2.png

Conileaf_face_1.png
Conileaf_face_2.png

Noctalo_face_1.png
Noctalo_face_2.png

Noctula_face_1.png
Noctula_face_2.png

Pharfan_face_1.png
Pharfan_face_2.png

Polyrock_face_1.png
Polyrock_face_2.png

Sclairus_face_1.png
Sclairus_face_2.png

Toufigel_face_1.png
Toufigel_face_2.png

Tourbidi_face1.png
Tourbidi_face2.png

Volcoli_face_1.png
Volcoli_face_2.png

Progress, but needs more:

Conifrost needs back:

Conifrost_face_1.png
Conifrost_face_2.png

Embra and Ruption need back sprites:

Ruption_face_1.png
Ruption_face_2.png

Pipis needs face sprites
Strella_face_1.png
Strella_face_2.png
Pipis_back.png

Gectile needs face and back sprites:
Velocitile_face_1.png
Velocitile_face_2.png

Monkeybot needs back sprites:
Monkeybot-front.png
Monkeybot_face_2.png
Monkeybot_face_3.png

Merlicun back needed; Firomenis faces and back needed
Merlicun_face_1.png
Merlicun_face_2.png

Nudiflot M and Nudikill need back sprites
Nudikill_face_1.png
Nudikill_face_2.png

Nudiflot_m_face1.png
Nudiflot_m_face2.png

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By Sanglorian 30 Oct 2016 11:10

Champion · 498 comments

Was gonna hold these back, but thought what the heck:

Frondly_back.png
Snarlon_back.png
Grintrock_back.png
Grintot_back.png
Grinflare_back.png
Nostray_back.png


Pipis_face_1.png
Pipis_face_2.png

Gets us up to 100, by my count!

Last edited by Sanglorian (30 Oct 2016 12:14)

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By tamashihoshi 30 Oct 2016 21:35

Champion · 251 comments

Wow, good job on all those sprites yikes

... and ... erm ... propellercat already had face sprites already big_smile but thank you anyways for your effort!
https://forum.tuxemon.org/thread.php?pid=474#p474


We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when. But I know we'll meet again some sunny day!

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By Sanglorian 31 Oct 2016 01:23

Champion · 498 comments

Thanks tamashi - and my bad on Propellercat, I've fixed that now.

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By tamashihoshi 31 Oct 2016 18:28

Champion · 251 comments
Sanglorian wrote

Thanks tamashi - and my bad on Propellercat, I've fixed that now.

no problem - thanks for fixing ^_^


We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when. But I know we'll meet again some sunny day!

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By josepharaoh99 2 Nov 2016 17:58

Champion · 295 comments

Amazing!! You must be working your tail off, but that's how games get finished!

Wow, 100! now we need to get them into the game! Thanks so much for your help Sanglorian - it means a lot to me.


Multiple Media Producer
Jesus is God! http://www.upci.org/search

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By ShadowApex 3 Nov 2016 01:35

Lead Developer · 374 comments
josepharaoh99 wrote

Amazing!! You must be working your tail off, but that's how games get finished!

Wow, 100! now we need to get them into the game! Thanks so much for your help Sanglorian - it means a lot to me.

Awesome work to everyone who helped in this sprint! To get these in the game we just need the following now:

  • A file entry like this one in resources/db/monster for each monster.
  • The monster sprite images put in resources/gfx/sprites/battle.
  • An entry in resources/db/locale/en_US.json with each monster's name, description, etc. located here.
  • Optionally the monsters put in an encounter file in resources/db/encounter like this one, so they can be encountered in the game.

Once this is done, we'll be able to encounter all of these creatures in Tuxemon. smile


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By Sanglorian 3 Nov 2016 06:05

Champion · 498 comments
josepharaoh99 wrote

Amazing!! You must be working your tail off, but that's how games get finished!

Wow, 100! now we need to get them into the game! Thanks so much for your help Sanglorian - it means a lot to me.

Thank you for the kind words - I really appreciate it!

Thanks to everyone who participated.

ShadowApex wrote

Awesome work to everyone who helped in this sprint! To get these in the game we just need the following now:

  • A file entry like this one in resources/db/monster for each monster.
  • The monster sprite images put in resources/gfx/sprites/battle.
  • An entry in resources/db/locale/en_US.json with each monster's name, description, etc. located here.
  • Optionally the monsters put in an encounter file in resources/db/encounter like this one, so they can be encountered in the game.

Once this is done, we'll be able to encounter all of these creatures in Tuxemon. smile

Thanks ShadowApex. Is their a guide on what range of stats and stat mods represents what? For example, it would be useful to have a guide like:

Speed of 10 represents extremely slow, Speed of 40 represents average, Speed of 70 represents extremely fast. 1/10 should have Speed 10-20, 2/10 Speed 20-30, 4/10 Speed 30-50, 2/10 Speed 50-60 and 1/10 Speed 60-70.

Speed mod should be 1, unless Speed is below 30, in which case it should be 0.9, or above 50, in which case it should be 1.1.

Overall, a monster's average stat should be 40 and their average stat mod should be 1.

(Or whatever suits the rules of the game).

Last edited by Sanglorian (3 Nov 2016 06:06)

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By xirsoi 4 Nov 2016 21:32

Champion · 66 comments

I think, for a lot of those things, it is relative. If the fastest Tuxemon in the game has a Speed of 100, then 10 would be incredibly slow and 70 would be above average.

These are actually the kinds of things that monster creators would be deciding as they make the monsters smile

As a note, the values can be so large as to be unwieldy (talking in the trillions), so don't feel like you have to keep the numbers in the tens. Making the scale too large will make UI stuff hard though. It's just good to leave room for Tuxemon to gain stats as they level and to have some granularity. Perhaps have a design (not code) limitation of 999 ?

Last edited by xirsoi (4 Nov 2016 21:33)


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By Sanglorian 4 Nov 2016 22:36

Champion · 498 comments
xirsoi wrote

I think, for a lot of those things, it is relative. If the fastest Tuxemon in the game has a Speed of 100, then 10 would be incredibly slow and 70 would be above average.

These are actually the kinds of things that monster creators would be deciding as they make the monsters smile

As a note, the values can be so large as to be unwieldy (talking in the trillions), so don't feel like you have to keep the numbers in the tens. Making the scale too large will make UI stuff hard though. It's just good to leave room for Tuxemon to gain stats as they level and to have some granularity. Perhaps have a design (not code) limitation of 999 ?

I think the monster creators need to know what the values represent before they can decide which values to give the monsters. Once we know whether the fastest monster in the game has a Speed of 100, then we can decide if a particular monster is the fastest in the game and - if it is - give it a Speed of 100.

Last edited by Sanglorian (4 Nov 2016 22:37)

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By ShadowApex 5 Nov 2016 00:21

Lead Developer · 374 comments
Sanglorian wrote

I think the monster creators need to know what the values represent before they can decide which values to give the monsters. Once we know whether the fastest monster in the game has a Speed of 100, then we can decide if a particular monster is the fastest in the game and - if it is - give it a Speed of 100.

The monster attributes are definitely going to take some time to tweak and balance. Coming up with appropriate stats is going to be an ongoing issue that we'll need to refine with time. At this early stage with monster stats, we can be pretty relaxed on the initial stats of each monster and tweak things as we go. For starting stats, I would suggest trying to keep the numbers low (below 100).

In order to help people put together monsters sprites, stats, etc. I created a new Tuxemon web project that will help people more easily put in all these monster details (stats, name, description, etc.). This project makes it a little easier for people who don't want to write monster stats directly in JSON format, and it will also let us put sensible defaults and restrictions on stats to help people make new monsters. The project can be found on GitHub here: https://github.com/Tuxemon/Tuxemon-MonsterMaker

Right now it isn't ready to be put on the website yet, but when it is people can use it to create and submit new monsters. Here's a quick screenshot of what it looks like right now in its basic form:

monstermaker.png


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By xirsoi 5 Nov 2016 18:12

Champion · 66 comments
Sanglorian wrote
xirsoi wrote

I think, for a lot of those things, it is relative. If the fastest Tuxemon in the game has a Speed of 100, then 10 would be incredibly slow and 70 would be above average.

These are actually the kinds of things that monster creators would be deciding as they make the monsters smile

As a note, the values can be so large as to be unwieldy (talking in the trillions), so don't feel like you have to keep the numbers in the tens. Making the scale too large will make UI stuff hard though. It's just good to leave room for Tuxemon to gain stats as they level and to have some granularity. Perhaps have a design (not code) limitation of 999 ?

I think the monster creators need to know what the values represent before they can decide which values to give the monsters. Once we know whether the fastest monster in the game has a Speed of 100, then we can decide if a particular monster is the fastest in the game and - if it is - give it a Speed of 100.

The fastest monster in the game will, by definition, be the monster with the highest Speed attribute. It's all relative. If you decide that Cardinale is going to be the fastest Tuxemon in the game and give it a base Speed of 99, then I come by and make a two-headed falcon Tuxemon called Pairagrin with a base Speed of 106, Pairagrin is the fastest now.

The developers do need to document what each attribute actually does (Speed determines which Tuxemon goes first in combat, higher goes first), but after that it's all up to content creators. Since ShadowApex thinks 100 is the highest base value we'll use, assume that 100 is really high and just pick values in line with the Tuxemon's concept. I imagine Nudiflot would be pretty slow, but maybe have higher than average hp.


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By Sanglorian 5 Nov 2016 22:05

Champion · 498 comments
xirsoi wrote

The fastest monster in the game will, by definition, be the monster with the highest Speed attribute. It's all relative. If you decide that Cardinale is going to be the fastest Tuxemon in the game and give it a base Speed of 99, then I come by and make a two-headed falcon Tuxemon called Pairagrin with a base Speed of 106, Pairagrin is the fastest now.

The developers do need to document what each attribute actually does (Speed determines which Tuxemon goes first in combat, higher goes first), but after that it's all up to content creators. Since ShadowApex thinks 100 is the highest base value we'll use, assume that 100 is really high and just pick values in line with the Tuxemon's concept. I imagine Nudiflot would be pretty slow, but maybe have higher than average hp.

But what is average HP, so I can make Nudiflot's HP higher than that? What Speed value should Nudiflot have, in order to make it pretty slow? Is 100 the highest base value we'll use? What's the lowest base value we'll use? If Pairagrin has a Speed of 106, will a level 1 Pairagrin still be faster than a level 2 Cardinale? A level 10 Cardinale? A level 100 Nudiflot?

It may all be relative, but at the moment we have nothing to relate it to.

And before we allocate stats, we also need to know things like:

Should all tuxemon be equally powerful? lf so, does that mean all tuxemon should have the same average stats, or are there diminishing returns for some stats beyond a certain point?

Is damage based on Attack divided by Defence, or Attack minus Defence? Attack 60, Defence 10 means very different things depending on what the answer to that is.

Pairagrin is a great tuxemon name, by the way.

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By Sanglorian 7 Nov 2016 04:39

Champion · 498 comments
ShadowApex wrote
Sanglorian wrote

I think the monster creators need to know what the values represent before they can decide which values to give the monsters. Once we know whether the fastest monster in the game has a Speed of 100, then we can decide if a particular monster is the fastest in the game and - if it is - give it a Speed of 100.

The monster attributes are definitely going to take some time to tweak and balance. Coming up with appropriate stats is going to be an ongoing issue that we'll need to refine with time. At this early stage with monster stats, we can be pretty relaxed on the initial stats of each monster and tweak things as we go. For starting stats, I would suggest trying to keep the numbers low (below 100).

In order to help people put together monsters sprites, stats, etc. I created a new Tuxemon web project that will help people more easily put in all these monster details (stats, name, description, etc.). This project makes it a little easier for people who don't want to write monster stats directly in JSON format, and it will also let us put sensible defaults and restrictions on stats to help people make new monsters. The project can be found on GitHub here: https://github.com/Tuxemon/Tuxemon-MonsterMaker

Right now it isn't ready to be put on the website yet, but when it is people can use it to create and submit new monsters. Here's a quick screenshot of what it looks like right now in its basic form:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Tuxem … rmaker.png

Sorry ShadowApex, I somehow missed this post the first time around.

MonsterMaker looks good! Funnily enough I've been toying with my own tool to make monster making easier - a spreadsheet with formulas that would make calculations automatically, and that could then be converted automatically to a JSON file.

If the stats are going to change, possibly dramatically, can I suggest an alternative to picking actual values?

If we just got people to describe stats in qualitative terms, we could generate preliminary values from that, and then tweak the whole set at once, instead of tweaking monster by monster. Once we know where we want the numbers to be, we could go in and manually adjust the values.

For example,

I create Lambert, and assign it Attack: Good, Defence: Great, HP: Good, Special Attack: Terrible, Special Defence: Good and Speed: Bad.

The formula (which aims for an average of 40, and a minimum of ~10 and a max of ~72) assigns it Attack: 48, Defence: 60, HP: 48, Special Attack: 12, Special Defence: 48 and Speed: 24.

This averages to 40, with steps of 12 points: Terrible: 12, Bad: 24, Average: 36, Good: 48, Great: 60.

On the other hand, I create Rockitten (for example) with Attack: Great, Defence: Great, and all other values Terrible.

This results in an Attack of 72, a Defence of 72, and all others 24. (Again, for an average of 40).

If in the future we decided that the gap between stats was too great, and we wanted stats between 25 and 55, we could trivially change the formula without needing to redo every monster.

You can see an implementation of this idea (and you can fiddle around with it), here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ … sp=sharing

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By xirsoi 8 Nov 2016 02:26

Champion · 66 comments

I just don't see why you need a developer to tell you what those numbers will be, is what I'm getting at.

I totally get that you need to know what effect each attribute has on the game. That makes total sense. But, you just created a system, right there, for determining good/great/bad scores. You didn't need any direction from a dev.

I think most monsters should be relatively balanced. As an example, look at the d20 Point Buy system. That link might be hard to read on the dark theme.

I think it would be cool for there to be clearly better Tuxemon here and there that are tough to get but worth the effort. Like the fossils or legendaries from the Pokemon games.

I'm glad you liked Pairagrin, it just came to me smile


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By Sanglorian 9 Nov 2016 00:40

Champion · 498 comments

Well, it doesn't need to be a developer - but there should be a general agreement in the community. I'm happy for everyone to use my system, or I'm happy to use someone else's system, as long as there's a system.

For example, the D&D point buy system that you link to assumes that higher scores are disproportionately better than lower scores - that +3 Strength and +1 Intelligence is better than +2 Strength and +2 Intelligence (increasing returns).

This is quite possibly the case for Attack and Special Attack, because you can focus on one and just always techniques associated with your better stat.

But the other possibility is that higher scores are disproportionately worse than lower scores - that +2 Strength and +2 Intelligence is better than +3 Strength and +1 Intelligence.

This is quite possibly the case for Speed, because once you're faster than your opponent, it doesn't matter (usually) how much faster you are.

Yeah, there's an interesting discussion to be had around whether some tuxemon should be better than others. For example, should tuxemon get stronger as they evolve, or should that just open up new options? As you say, legendaries and fossils are other ones that might warrant higher stats.

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By josepharaoh99 9 Nov 2016 17:08

Champion · 295 comments

One thing I've noticed is that in the db files, the base hp is rather high. When I tested battles in the game, the battle was kind of slow because the tuxemon had lots of hp but a little attack. On the other hand, in some of the old Pokemon games, the battles went faster, partly because the lower level Pokemon only had a little hp.

What if we set 10 as a base hp for the average or weakest level 1 tuxemon?


Multiple Media Producer
Jesus is God! http://www.upci.org/search

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By tamashihoshi 9 Nov 2016 19:46

Champion · 251 comments

this discussion about the stats could be moved into a new threat maybe?


We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when. But I know we'll meet again some sunny day!

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By Sanglorian 10 Nov 2016 02:45

Champion · 498 comments
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By Sanglorian 19 Nov 2016 16:55

Champion · 498 comments

Sharpfin_front_2.png
Botbot-front.png
Botbot_face_1.png
Botbot_face_2.png
Botbot_back.png

Botbot is now complete.

Sharpfin needs back and face sprites.

Monkeybot-back.png

Monkeybot is now complete.

Fishbot-face1.png
Fishbot-face2.png
Fishbot_back.png

Fishbot is now complete.

Birdbot_back.png
Birdbot_face_2.png
Birdbot_face_1.png

Birdbot complete.

Bigfin_face_1.png
Bigfin_face_2.png

Bigfin complete (based on tamashihoshi's Dollfin face sprites).

Gunnerturtle_front.png

From josepharaoh99's initial sprite. Still needs back and face sprites.

Last edited by Sanglorian (20 Nov 2016 01:03)

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By Sanglorian 20 Nov 2016 09:54

Champion · 498 comments

Gunnerturtle_back.png
Gunnerturtle_face_1.png
Gunnerturtle_face_2.png

Gunnerturtle is complete,

Jemuar_back.png

Jemuar is complete, finishing off the Rockitten line.

That also finalises all our starters!

Last edited by Sanglorian (20 Nov 2016 10:25)