The Normal Element; Sub-Elements, Life Stages and Body Types


By Sanglorian 18 Apr 2017 10:23

Champion · 550 comments

How to Handle the Normal Element

I've previously been resistant to having a Normal element, for a number of reasons, but I've recently thought of how it could work:

What if Normal-element techniques take the element of their user? For example, Bite might be Normal-element, but when used by a Water-element tuxemon, it becomes Water-element itself.

This would give us a stable of techniques that we could give to any tuxemon, rather than (as I have done), having identical techniques for each different type.

Sub-Elements, Life Stages and Body Types - A Proposal for Stats and Techniques

One thing I have been thinking about recently is how to assign stats and techniques to different tuxemon. With over a hundred tuxemon already, designing sensible and useful technique sets for each one  would be a huge job - and not necessarily one that people will be excited by. The technique sets that I designed eleven months ago are still the only ones that we have.

Some of these ideas have already been explored by others in our community, especially moritz_gunz and Alchemist. Thank you to them for helping me form these ideas.

So my idea is this:

Every tuxemon has one Body Type, and one or more Sub-Elements. These determine:

* Stats
* Techniques

The Life Stage that a tuxemon is at (first form, second form or final form) would also determine how high its stats are and which techniques are available.

Body Types

Here are the body types that I think make sense:

* Humanoid: A human-like tuxemon
* Bird
* Construct: Covering everything from robots to golems to plant beings. Things that are not animals, that have roughly animal-like forms.
* Amorphous: Slimes, fire elementals, exploding spheres, other things without distinct heads, limbs, torsos
* Grub: Insects, arthropods, most other invertebrates
* Fish: And dolphins, and other smallish swimming things
* Seabeast: Anything big enough to swallow a person - krakens, sea serpents, whales, etc
* Amphibian
* Landrace
* Hunter: Small cats, big cats (tigers, lions), crocodiles, dogs, hyenas, goannas, and other relatively swift, often domesticated, carnivores of that size
* Dragon
* Varmint: From badgers to mice
* Brute: Yetis, bears, Godzillas, and other often-bipedal, tough monsters
* Serpent: And eels, legless lizards, etc.   


There could be any number of these. There could even be Sub-Elements that only one tuxemon belongs to, which would allow us to assign unique techniques to particular tuxemon.

Some I've thought of:

* Ancient
* Inferno
* Swamp
* Robotic
* Lightning
* Fey
* Brawler
* Blades
* Crypt

Life Stages

There would be three Life Stages:

* Original (multiply all Stats by 10, then add 10)
* Middle (multiply all Stats by 12, then add 15)
* Final (multiply all Stats by 14, then add 20)

Tuxemon that never morph would be in the Middle Life Stage. Tuxemon that morph once would start out in the Original Stage and end in the Final Stage (bypassing the Middle Stage). Only tuxemon that morph twice would go through all three Stages in their lifetimes. 


Landrace (Body Type)

A landrace is a stocky, large animal, typically a quadruped and probably herbivorous or omnivorous. It includes anything from pigs to elephants to apatosauruses.

Starting Stats
* Speed: 0 
* Melee: 2 
* Ranged: 1 
* Armour: 3 
* Dodge: 0 
* HP: 3 

Techniques, Learned from Leveling
All Stages
* 1: Headbutt
* 5: Shell
* 9: Ringing Blow
* 15: Undermine
* 21: Cannon Charge

Middle and Final Stages Only
* 28: Panjandrum
* 36: Verdigris

Final Stage Only
* 44: All Out
* 54: Unstoppable Force

Techniques, Learned from Manuals

* Gulp Down
* Hibernate
* Roar
* Body Slam

Crypt (Sub-Element)

Crypt creatures are uncanny, deathly, morbid, spectral, frightening or otherwise associated with tombs and the afterlife.

Stat Modifications
* Ranged: +1
* Speed: -1

Techniques, Learned from Leveling
All Stages
* 3: Eyebite
* 7: Glower
* 12: Feint
* 18: Suck Blood
* 24: Muddle

Middle and Final Stages Only
* 32: Amnesia
* 40: Bone Spur

Final Only
* 44: Shadow Boxing
* 54: Invictus

Techniques, Learned from Manuals

* Shroud
* Smog


So let's say I design a ghoulish rhinocerous that morphs once. Maybe the original tuxemon is called Foalter, and it morphs into Pachydeath from level 25. Both morphs are clearly Crypt Landraces.

Foalter (Original Stage Crypt Landrace)
* Speed: -1 * 10 + 10 = 0
* Melee: 2 * 10 + 10 = 30
* Ranged: 2 * 10 + 10 = 30
* Armour: 3 * 10 + 10 = 40
* Dodge: 0 * 10 + 10 = 10
* HP: 3 * 10 + 10 = 40 

Techniques, Learned from Leveling
* 3: Eyebite
* 7: Glower
* 12: Feint
* 18: Suck Blood
* 24: Muddle

Techniques, Learned from Manuals
* Shroud
* Smog

Pachydeath (Final Stage Crypt Landrace)
* Speed: -1 * 14 + 20 = 6
* Melee: 2 * 14 + 20 = 48
* Ranged: 2 * 14 + 20 = 48
* Armour: 3 * 14 + 20 = 62
* Dodge: 0 * 14 + 20 = 20
* HP: 3 * 14 + 20 = 62

Techniques, Learned from Leveling
* 3: Eyebite
* 7: Glower
* 12: Feint
* 18: Suck Blood
* 24: Muddle
* 32: Amnesia
* 40: Bone Spur
* 44: Shadow Boxing
* 54: Invictus

Techniques, Learned from Manuals
* Shroud
* Smog


One of the strengths of this system is that it creates a sense that the universe is coherent. All Crypt creatures have similar techniques; all Landrace creatures have similar techniques and stats. What you learn from battling an Inferno Brute carries over to fighting Inferno Predators and Swamp Brutes.

Another strength is that it's much quicker to update if we change something. For example, if we decide to get rid of a technique, we might have to remove it from a couple of Body Types - rather than directly from dozens of tuxemon.  If we want to rebalance the stats, or add new ones, or remove some, we only have to do that several times instead of several hundred times.

The final strength is that it's quick and intuitive. You just designed a tuxemon. What sort of animal is it? A tiger-y, cougar-y thing? Bam! It's the Predator Body Type. And what's its theme, what does it do? It's psychic? Okay, give it the Mentalist Sub-Element.

That's all you need to do, it's complete!


What does everyone think?


By tamashihoshi 18 Apr 2017 19:57

Champion · 261 comments

Reminds me of how character creation in some RPGs work... probably because I've played neverwinter nights 2 a while ago tongue
Sounds okay to me I think. Is this Tuxemon system for the whole thing? Like all campaigns coming after the main campaign? Or do we allow others to create more individual Tuxemon?


By Sanglorian 19 Apr 2017 06:41

Champion · 550 comments
tamashihoshi wrote

Reminds me of how character creation in some RPGs work... probably because I've played neverwinter nights 2 a while ago tongue
Sounds okay to me I think. Is this Tuxemon system for the whole thing? Like all campaigns coming after the main campaign? Or do we allow others to create more individual Tuxemon?

Yeah, the RPG character creation definitely came to mind - Body Type + Sub-Element is almost like picking a race and a class!

I think we let others do whatever they like! I can certainly imagine future Tuxemon campaigns using all sorts of different ways of doing things.


By Sanglorian 24 Apr 2017 13:23

Champion · 550 comments

I've been working hard on body types, sub-elements and the rest, and I'm almost done! In the meantime, I wanted to share another thing I've been thinking of: default technique animations.

The idea is that a technique would have a set animation by default, which would be overridden if there was a different one that worked better.

I was also thinking that the attack animation could be different depending on whether it's a melee or a ranged attack. In a melee attack, the attacker could move forward, then back, to model a lunge. In a ranged attack, they could move back, then forward, to model stepping back to take a shot.

What do you think?

Suggested default animations:

Fire Melee / Ranged / Self (the self animations would play on the person using the technique, instead of the target)

Earth Melee / Ranged / Self

Metal Melee / Ranged / Self

Water Melee / Ranged / Self

Wood Melee / Ranged / Self

Aether Melee / Ranged / Self

Last edited by Sanglorian (24 Apr 2017 13:24)


By bitcraft 24 Apr 2017 17:16

Champion · 167 comments

Wow there are great!  I 'd love to see these added!  Combining these with special types would be cool too.


By bitcraft 24 Apr 2017 17:38

Champion · 167 comments

Just a couple comments...

You could save some time by reusing the "hexagon orb" self animation that is used for wood and water.  It is really a nice animation and could apply for all types.  Just palette swap them for all the types.  (only if you want to!  might give you the option to use the existing self animations for special use techniques).

The earth-self animation could also be change to grayscale for use as a "smoke vanishing", type effect.

Also, I think we could really get a lot of animations by changing all the colors.  The wood-randed couple also double as a wind attack with a grey or brown palette.

The Aether-self attack could also be changes to purple/white/red for a generic effect for damage when combined with others.  For example, play one generic attack, then the "spots explosion" at the same time.  Fighting games often do this.

So far I love it!


By Sanglorian 24 Apr 2017 23:25

Champion · 550 comments

Thanks bitcraft! You can see all the technique animations we're sourced so far on the wiki.

We already have a few recolours of the spots explosions, but I hadn't considered associating them with generic effects. That's a great idea! Blue could be Frozen, gold could be Flinching and red could be for a Crit.

I do have a few other recolours in mind, but I found it surprisingly difficult to pick a new colour palette for the animation that looked good. There's a real art to it!


Also, I've made body types and sub-elements that cover all currently complete tuxemon! You can find them in this spreadsheet. I tried to give each body type and sub-element a unique theme, so each tuxemon feels satisfying to play.

Next step is to look through and see which techniques would work for each body type and sub-element as nurture techniques.


By xirsoi 27 Jan 2020 20:19

Champion · 91 comments

Bit of a necro here, but thought I had some thoughts to contribute.

I personally think that non-aligned moves ("Normal" type) have a place in a game like this. A few moves that aren't strong or weak against any other type can be strategically useful in a party. Even if there's no "Normal" Tuxemon, such techniques would still be a valuable contribution, I think.

But, I know I'm in the minority with this opinion. Perhaps I'll make a mod in the future smile


By Sanglorian 28 Jan 2020 01:31

Champion · 550 comments

Nothing wrong with being in the minority! I don't think you'd even need to make it a mod - I think it's still built into the main game, just no current monsters/techniques use it. So you could create some "Normal" monsters and techniques for your own campaign/maps (I've been calling it "Aether", at least for status techniques that do no damage and therefore don't need a type).

Alternatively if you wanted to tweak types across the board, that would probably need a mod! That could get very broad, adding more types than just Normal if you wanted. I think it would be interesting to have a mod with Pokemon-like numbers of types (say 12 to 20) instead of our strict 5.


By xirsoi 28 Jan 2020 16:44

Champion · 91 comments

Technically a new campaign, maps, or tuxemon would be a mod wink


By Sanglorian 29 Jan 2020 02:43

Champion · 550 comments

Haha, fair enough!