[SPOILERS] World Lore Suggestion

Avatar

By jobashi 21 May 2015 20:32

New member · 2 comments

This might fall under the header of "two opposing sides", but the idea itself is more comprehensive. I don't like the idea that the Tuxemon are empty vessels; part of the appeal of a monster trainer game is bonding with your creature, and deciding they're not sentient just to circumvent a question of ethics seems the wrong approach. I don't really think there's any ethical issues with seeing them as regular creatures that is also not present in the basic Pokemon game, or literally any RPG that has a druid with an animal companion, etc. I guess I don't think that's so important, at least not as important as the pet/companion bond you build with your creature. In fact, I think the only essential difference between Humans and Tuxemon should be that Tuxeballs &c were designed to work only on Tuxemon (or were designed specifically not to work on humans), but primordially they're the same.

I also think that as an open-source implementation, it'd be interesting if it'd play around with some of the concepts & teach a little about open-source software.
 
I think it would be interesting if the inhabitants of the game were (to varying degrees) aware that they lived in a virtual reality, not unlike Digimon. Tuxemon are sentient beings just like the humans of their world, but metaphysically their reality is a video-game (again, not everyone in the setting is aware of this fact). As such, while game-mechanics should be logical and internally-consistent, there's no need to explain them further within the setting. Game mechanics work the way they do in their universe because their universe is a game coded to have those mechanics.   
 
The player wouldn't need to know this right away, but as they got deeper and deeper into the lore it would become more self-referential and 4th-wall breaking (But always in a logical & internally-consistent manner). Now, taking this setting for granted, for some backstory/world lore: 
 
The sentient programs of Tuxeworld (or whatever, I know that's an ugly name) knew their world was a simulation, in the dawn of time. As such, they had great power to alter and recreate the world they shared as they saw fit. Eventually, however, some of the programs, led by a Giovanni-type figure, either lusting for power or out of dislike of how their creations were being put to use, banded together to, through a ritual of great power, rewrite the game in which they lived. They created the concept of copyright in order profit from their creations, control who could own the Tuxemon they created, and under what terms. Eventually, this led to a tyrannical hierarchy of power, represented by the Great Cathedral. Most Tuxemon at the start of the setting belong to one of 7 different 'Branches' or 'Pillars' of the Great Cathedral. That means that you must buy the Tuxemon from an approved Pillar Store, you have to take it to the Pillar Store to level it up or heal it (for a fee), and you may only fuse it with Tuxemon of the same Pillar.

Any copyrighted Tuxemon you capture in the wild is labeled as a pirate Tuxemon. This can lead to a fine or the Tuxemon being taken away if caught by an Enforcer (these would be random encounters in which they'd have to beat your pirated Tuxemon to capture it), but which you can fuse with any other pirated or bazaar Tuxemon (however, if either parent is pirated it's still consider pirated). Having a pirated Tuxemon lets you avoid the high prices at the Pillar Stores, level it up on your own, and fuse it however you want, but could potentially lead you to lose that Tuxemon if you lose an encounter with an Enforcer. 
 
There should also be a black market at the literal Pirate Bay that lets you buy pirated Tuxemon, as well as Bazaar Tuxemon.
 
You begin the game in what's left of the Bazaar, essentially the Creative Commons. Bazaar Tuxemon are free to fuse with any other Tuxemon, & free to be captured in the wild. As you go through the game, you knock down pillar by pillar of the Cathedral (comparable to Trainer gyms). After each pillar is knocked down, those Tuxemon are released into the Bazaar, so any pirated Tuxemon of that pillar are now considered free to use (so, you have a wider pool of options in terms of fusion as the game progresses, and there is a clear reward for beating each gym). Eventually you get to the Giovanni-type figure that engineered the closed-source system in the first place, and free all the Tuxemon. 

I know that's not a fair representation of the Cathedral vs. Bazaar models, since that's more about software-development than copyright, but I just like the names. But to be fair, that could definitely be changed to something else without changing anything about the idea.

Any thoughts?

Avatar

By ShadowApex 21 May 2015 22:11

Lead Developer · 374 comments

I actually really like these ideas, especially the way knocking down pillars provides an interesting mechanic of unlocking new monsters that you can use freely. Your point about the player's bond with their creatures is a compelling one. The way you also describe the primary antagonist as wielding enough power to rewrite the world is especially powerful and would create a great sense of build-up as you train your monsters for the inevitable final battle. Perhaps catching a glimpse of this antagonist's power early in the game would add to that build-up, similar to the way the first level of MegaMan X ends. Egoraptor has a great analysis of this here at 12:10 mark.

I also like the idea of including references to open source and its philosophies, and intend to do so, but I'd like the references to be somewhat subtle and not come off as too preachy. I think that, with these ideas, that might be attainable, so long as it's not too overt.


Avatar

By jobashi 21 May 2015 22:58

New member · 2 comments

Awesome smile 
 
I like the idea of an early cutscene that establishes how powerful your enemies are, although the Giovanni-type figure (Gill Bates? Jk, lol) should probably not make an appearance until the end of the game. Maybe witness Team-Rocket-like enforcers bust up an illegal Also, I think the antagonist's power would be evident everywhere you go, since the restrictions on Tuxemon and their enforcement is a direct application of that power. That's more of a subtle display of force, though, not the world-changing hack that allowed them to establish such power in the first place. But it should still be very obvious (via scenery, dialogue and mechanics) who's in charge. I'm thinking the cities under Cathedral control would be filled with competing ads from each of the pillars, ads against Tuxemon Piracy, ads promoting Cathedral Tuxemon over Bazaar Tuxemon, ominous pictures of Gill Bates, or the Cathedral logo, etc. 
 
I also think it'd be interesting to give Gill Bates a motive beyond just power and control--maybe he/she really believes in the Cathedral model, thinks that the Seven Pillars competing against each other will lead to better Tuxemon than the old free-for-all, thinks that Tuxemon creators should get to decide how their Tuxemon are used, etc. Not to say (s)he's not the bad guy, but the more shades of grey in a setting the better. 
 
Would you be interested in having Tuxemon based on OS mascots, a la SuperTuxCart? Not exclusively, of course, and well-integrated. Obviously Tux, a Gnu, Wilber (GIMP), the BSD demon, etc. I think asking for Tuxemon & evolutions based on these mascots (either in general open source forums or their respective forums) would be a good way to generate Tuxemon submissions and get a Tuxedex going.

Last edited by jobashi (22 May 2015 02:05)

Avatar

By ShadowApex 22 May 2015 00:50

Lead Developer · 374 comments

That does sound like a reasonable way to demonstrate the power of the antagonist, as long as it maintains a looming presence throughout the story. Holding off on making their appearance would definitely add a sense of mystery surrounding the final boss.

I don't mind open source-themed monsters, as long as they stay consistent with the style  and theme of the other monsters in the game. Someone also suggested the "Mon Pages" as a name for the Tuxedex, which I thought was pretty creative.


Avatar

By rsg167 25 May 2015 22:32

Member · 37 comments

I like this idea! Especially the idea of having 7 pillars to topple. It has a clear reward for the player, i.e. freeing more tuxemon, and it's a lot like the gym conquest that Pokémon fans are already familiar with.

A legendary tuxemon could be responsible for the code changes. For extra mystery, that legendary could be never shown to the player, but it could be implied in the dialogue of Giovanni's henchmen and, for example, a book in an NPC's house.

Avatar

By nikkos 14 Sep 2015 03:09

New member · 7 comments

This sounds so cool. I like just about all of the ideas presented here. The only thing is, I would say that I think the Tuxemon should only be based on OS icons in a very subtle way, otherwise it might be too cheesy. I personally feel it might be hard to become immersed if I knew it were OS icons like tux and the BSD demon. But thats just my opinion and I could live with whatever. I'm a fan of brand new, unique Tuxemon smile

The 7 pillars idea sounds excellent. I also feel like this whole story, in general, could lead up to really good sequel stories. (like a secret 8th pillar, etc)

Avatar

By Sanglorian 23 Oct 2015 11:21

Champion · 491 comments
jobashi wrote

Would you be interested in having Tuxemon based on OS mascots, a la SuperTuxCart? Not exclusively, of course, and well-integrated. Obviously Tux, a Gnu, Wilber (GIMP), the BSD demon, etc. I think asking for Tuxemon & evolutions based on these mascots (either in general open source forums or their respective forums) would be a good way to generate Tuxemon submissions and get a Tuxedex going.

I think that's a great idea to build enthusiasm and show the game's sympathies. Someone's actually done this already, under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike licence, here: http://grisebouille.net/libremon/

Now, I'm not suggesting that this fits the art style of the game, or that these quite literal interpretations of the mascots would be appropriate - just wanted to share the common thinking.

Avatar

By josepharaoh99 30 Nov 2015 17:39

Champion · 295 comments

I REALLY like this idea!! It is like a zillion times better than Pokemon. I had some ideas to make the story line more specific. What if the story starts with the player (Red or whatever) really wants some special Tuxemon, but he can't afford to buy it under the Copyright law. Then, his friend (Maple?) tells him about a place she knows he can go to get a wild whatever-he-wants, so they both go. Red finds his Tuxemon, and Maple finds a Tuxemon of opposite element. While they are catching these Tuxemon, a copyright cop catches them, and they have to battle together to keep the Tuxemon they caught. I just don't want this to be too much like breaking law (I don't want to go into trivial areas), so maybe the cop is some Copyright fanatic who has no authority to stop pirate-catching trainers, but tries to anyway.
   So, tell me what you think! This is only a beginning, so feel free to add more to it from that point. If you like the idea, I can start working on the story on a map.
   P.S. What if, instead of in Pokemon, how the two main characters battle against each other again and again, in Tuxemon, they battle together against Copyright outlaws? This is would reduce meaningless battles between the two.

Last edited by josepharaoh99 (30 Nov 2015 17:57)


Multiple Media Producer
Jesus is God! http://www.upci.org/search

Avatar

By Sanglorian 30 Nov 2015 21:37

Champion · 491 comments

P.S. What if, instead of in Pokemon, how the two main characters battle against each other again and again, in Tuxemon, they battle together against Copyright outlaws? This is would reduce meaningless battles between the two.

I like the idea of having a friend, not a rival. However, I think the people you fight should be the same each time, to give that sense that your character is progressing. What if they were a pair whose tuxemon are all officially sanctioned, because their rich parents can afford them? Or a pair of copyright enforcers who keep getting promotions and better tuxemon in line with the player?

Avatar

By ShadowApex 1 Dec 2015 07:51

Lead Developer · 374 comments
josepharaoh99 wrote

I had some ideas to make the story line more specific. What if the story starts with the player (Red or whatever) really wants some special Tuxemon, but he can't afford to buy it under the Copyright law. Then, his friend (Maple?) tells him about a place she knows he can go to get a wild whatever-he-wants, so they both go. Red finds his Tuxemon, and Maple finds a Tuxemon of opposite element. While they are catching these Tuxemon, a copyright cop catches them, and they have to battle together to keep the Tuxemon they caught. I just don't want this to be too much like breaking law (I don't want to go into trivial areas), so maybe the cop is some Copyright fanatic who has no authority to stop pirate-catching trainers, but tries to anyway.

I think this is a pretty good start for the beginning of the game and can provide a decent introduction to the world and the lore that surrounds it. If you'd like to try creating some map events or some additional maps to do this, let me know and you can post what you have. Then you can open up a pull request (to the development branch wink ) and we'll accept it in the project. We'll always be able to go back and change things if we need to.

Sanglorian wrote

I like the idea of having a friend, not a rival. However, I think the people you fight should be the same each time, to give that sense that your character is progressing. What if they were a pair whose tuxemon are all officially sanctioned, because their rich parents can afford them? Or a pair of copyright enforcers who keep getting promotions and better tuxemon in line with the player?

I also like the idea of having a friend (open source is all about collaboration!). I like the idea of the opposing characters being rich kids who've only known the proprietary model of doing things. They don't even necessarily need to be rich, but just passionate about the model that they are accustom to. It might even be interesting to see those same characters start seeing the value of the system of the bazaar by the end of the game.


Avatar

By josepharaoh99 4 Dec 2015 16:34

Champion · 295 comments

I've got some maps now, but I'm having problems. Should I create an issue on my Github page and put my maps there or create a pull request so people can see my maps? I need some helpers  wink


Multiple Media Producer
Jesus is God! http://www.upci.org/search

Avatar

By ShadowApex 5 Dec 2015 02:24

Lead Developer · 374 comments
josepharaoh99 wrote

I've got some maps now, but I'm having problems. Should I create an issue on my Github page and put my maps there or create a pull request so people can see my maps? I need some helpers  wink

Please open a separate topic about this in the Map and Campaign Development category with some more details on what you need help with. Thanks!


Avatar

By Sanglorian 14 Nov 2016 23:59

Champion · 491 comments
Sanglorian wrote

I think that's a great idea to build enthusiasm and show the game's sympathies. Someone's actually done this already, under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike licence, here: http://grisebouille.net/libremon/

David Revoy's also done some cute open source mascots that would make good Tuxemon

635px-2016-10-21_capitol-du-libre_teeshirt_2016_by-David-Revoy.jpg

Avatar

By josepharaoh99 20 Nov 2016 23:46

Champion · 295 comments

Cool! They just look a little bit too much like normal animals in my opinion, but maybe they could be more Tuxemonized with some elements? The art style there is awesome, though!!


Multiple Media Producer
Jesus is God! http://www.upci.org/search

Avatar

By Sanglorian 21 Nov 2016 00:45

Champion · 491 comments

Yeah, I know what you mean about them looking a bit too much like normal animals. I've always thought that a water-type buffalo would be cute, so that's one option for the gnu in the bottom right.

The cat is from a webcomic about a witch, so maybe turning it into a magical tuxemon?

Avatar

By josepharaoh99 25 Nov 2016 19:52

Champion · 295 comments

How about

Buffalo: Water
Cat: Fantasy
Lizard: Fire
Penguin: Ice or Plant (just for something.   
   different)
Monkey: Earth


Multiple Media Producer
Jesus is God! http://www.upci.org/search

Avatar

By xirsoi 26 Nov 2016 01:52

Champion · 66 comments

There are a *lot* of plant monsters in the current roster. Lots of plant animal hybrids.


Avatar

By josepharaoh99 26 Nov 2016 17:23

Champion · 295 comments
xirsoi wrote

There are a *lot* of plant monsters in the current roster. Lots of plant animal hybrids.

Okay. I know we don't have many ice Tuxemon right now, I just wanted to think of something unique for the penguin big_smile

One idea I had. Don't know if any of you guys have played SuperTux Kart, and I haven't, but I noticed that they've got several racers themed on popular open-source programs. For example, they've got Suzanne from Blender, Android Robot from the android system, and the Mozilla Thunderbird. I thought it would be cool if we did something like that, too, and I know we've done it a little; we've got Tux from Linux (even though he could use a little bit of work), FoxFire from Mozilla, and Lambert from Gimp.

I was also thinking, the monkey in the picture could be Suzanne, and the buffalo GNU. Any other mascot ideas - what do you guys think of my idea?

Last edited by josepharaoh99 (26 Nov 2016 17:24)


Multiple Media Producer
Jesus is God! http://www.upci.org/search

Avatar

By Sanglorian 27 Nov 2016 00:37

Champion · 491 comments

Hey josepharaoh99, that's actually where they're from tongue

And the dragon is Konqi from KDE

Avatar

By josepharaoh99 29 Nov 2016 04:03

Champion · 295 comments
Sanglorian wrote

Hey josepharaoh99, that's actually where they're from tongue

And the dragon is Konqi from KDE

Quote Report

Oh, ;D okay!! Lol. So should we put Tuxemon like that into the game? Software mascots?

Last edited by josepharaoh99 (29 Nov 2016 04:03)


Multiple Media Producer
Jesus is God! http://www.upci.org/search

Avatar

By Sanglorian 29 Nov 2016 04:59

Champion · 491 comments

Yeah, I think so. We've already got a couple.

Avatar

By xirsoi 18 Dec 2016 03:18

Champion · 66 comments

Finally found this thread tongue

I was looking at SuperTuxKart and found their roster of racers, which are all FOSS mascots. Thought we could use it as a reference: https://supertuxkart.net/Discover


Avatar

By Sanglorian 18 Dec 2016 08:03

Champion · 491 comments

Good find!

Avatar

By josepharaoh99 22 Dec 2016 15:54

Champion · 295 comments

Yes, thank you! Something similar to this is what I envision for Tuxemon big_smile It would be awesome I think


Multiple Media Producer
Jesus is God! http://www.upci.org/search

Avatar

By Alchemist 3 Jan 2017 01:54

New member · 6 comments

Apologies if I am being too cavalier for being so new, but the digital theme taken in this direction is exciting. As a fan of large-scale motivations, (a la Sephiroth, if I may invoke the name without sounding like little more than a weeb) I have been inspired to propose this-

The Cathedral has established control over most of the digital universe. It regulates with fines and in general has a lot of power- but, what if a world-owning beurocracy isn't the ends, but a means to something more? 

In game currency. How much must they take in every day? Every year? And like a true game, where is this currency stored? Digitally.  In a bit-based counter. If their expenditures aren't too great, they may run into an overflow error. And what happens then? Whatever it is, the founders anticipated the ripple effect it would have on the universe. The Cathedral is built in such a storage location that when the currency value overflows...

I haven't got an answer for what that is. But I thought a grand scheme might be fun. Too much?

Edit- as an aside, I might also suggest a starting point to be from within the cathedral, playing by the "rules" and obtaining tuxemon in the ordained way, with the character arch discovering the open source method. This would set the protagonist as a "regular" gamer stepping into the open source world, which will probably relate to many players.

Last edited by Alchemist (3 Jan 2017 12:39)