I've been doing a lot of thinking about Tuxemon combat over the last couple of months, and I thought I'd set up this thread to share our thoughts and trigger discussion.
What's changed since last time I suggested how the combat system could look is that since then I tried programming a combat system for myself (Tuxemon Adventures), which has given me a great appreciation for how difficult programming is! But it also means I can be much more specific in outlining a combat system, which I hope will make it much easier for people to implement in Tuxemon.
The first thing I'd like to talk about is ...
There's been general agreement since the beginning, I think, over six Stats:
HP: How much damage you can takeMelee: How much damage your Melee attacks doRanged: How much damage your Ranged attacks doArmour: How well you resist damage from Melee attacksDodge: How well you resist damage from Ranged attacksSpeed: Whether you act before your opponent in battle
There have been a few suggestions for other stats, like Luck/Precision/Veracity (increasing your critical hit rate) and Aim (increasing the Accuracy of your attacks).
What could go into a Stat
What an individual tuxemon's Stat values actually are could depend on a number of inputs:
* Level* Species* Innate talent* Experiences* Quality
Whether your level adds to or multiplies your Stat values would affect how unbalanced a fight between tuxemon of different levels is. For example, does a level 50 tuxemon have Stats that are double that of a level 25 tuxemon? Or more than double? Or less than double?
The input from species could be that each tuxemon species has its own Stat values. I actually prefer abstracting this one step further, and saying that each species belongs to one of about 14 Body Shapes, and Body Shape helps determine Stat values.
"Innate talent" would be a random value for each individual, determined upon creation. Two options have been proposed for this:
* Nature Points: Individual tuxemon increase their Stats at different rates as they level up * Tastes: One Stat is increased by 10% and one is decreased by 10%
"Experiences" would depend on something that the individual tuxemon had done during its lifetime:
* Battle Points: The more you use ranged attacks, the better your Ranged Stat gets, for example. * Experience: When you beat a tuxemon with a better Stat than you, your own Stat increases. For example, the protagonist's Memnomnom with Speed 20 and Melee 30 faces a wild Spighter with Speed 30 and Melee 25. At the end of the battle, the Memnomnom gets one Speed Experience (its Speed was lower than the Spighter's) but no Melee Experience (its Melee is higher than the Spighter's).
"Quality" would be what power level the tuxemon is. I proposed "Life Stages", where the original stage of a tuxemon family would get all its Stats multiplied by 0.9, and the final stage would get all its Stats multiplied by 1.1. This reflects that we expect a Rockat to be more powerful than a Rockitten, and a Jemuar to be more powerful than either.
I've been doing some calculations, and I think the formula below works well:
Body Shape Multiplier * (7 + Tuxemon Level)
With Body Shape Multipliers ranging from 4 to 8, that means that tuxemon of the same level could have Stats that are at most twice as high as another. I think this is a good range; you might notice that I previously suggested Body Shape Multipliers between 2 and 6 - I did some maths and I think that three times higher is too much!
I've put my suggestions for Body Shapes and Body Shape Multipliers on the wiki. I'd be really interested to hear what people think - of the idea in general, of the Multipliers that I've suggested, and of the formula.
It would be possible to add some mechanism for innate talent, life stages and experiences to the formula I've suggested, but I feel like keeping it as simple as possible is best for now!
Archive* A framework for the combat system (my most recent proposal)* Proposed Tuxemon effects* 111 Tuxemon techniques* Let's talk about Tuxemon techniques* Technique suggestions* How should stats work?
Last edited by Sanglorian (1 Jul 2018 05:14)
Techniques are discrete attacks, blocks, tricks and other manoeuvres that tuxemon perform in combat.
How they work
AcquisitionThere are two main options for how techniques are acquired:
To keep things managable, tuxemon should probably only have access to a finite set of techniques in combat. There are two options:
The latter is how EvoCreo does it. However, there is some concern that this takes an interesting decision away from the player.
AdditionalTuxemon could learn additional techniques from a number of sources:
Both options are attractive, and having both lets comparisons be made between them: pay a corporation for a Technical Manual, or share knowledge between tuxemon for no charge.
UsesThere are also a number of ways of pacing how many times a technique can be used:
I think recharging is the best way of doing it.
VarietiesThere are a number of types of technique you can have:
ElementsThe most obvious is for techniques to have Types that match the types that monsters can have, including having two types if such a thing is possible for monsters.
However, there are a few other options:
OptionsThere could be any number of options for techniques. Some are below under Other options.
Another option for uses could be that they have a number of of uses per encounter. For example, during a single battle a certain technique could have 5 uses, and then is refreshed when you enter a new battle.
PurposeHaving capturing as part of combat adds a few features to the game:
1. Even battles against weak tuxemon are challenging, since you need to lower their hit points without eliminating them2. Other tactics become preferable, like using conditions or using techniques that aren't so damaging3. Capturing comes with a monetary cost, and being sloppy with capturing carries a higher cost4. Customisation - in a game with different types of Capture Device, you might want to catch your tuxemon in one particular one, or have a collection
How It Works
The main method of capturing that has been proposed is as follows:
1. You buy or otherwise acquire a number of Capture Devices2. In battle, you weaken the tuxemon by damaging it, and potentially also by giving it a negative condition3. Instead of taking another action in a Round like using a technique, you use a Capture Device4. It has a chance of succeeding. If it does, you catch the tuxemon. If it doesn't, then your Turn for the Round is over. You can try again later, however.
There are a number of factors that could be involved in catch likelihood:
* The item used* The level of the tuxemon* The HP of the tuxemon (current and maximum)* The species of tuxemon (some may be harder or easier to catch)* Conditions affecting the tuxemon* Some property of the trainer, like if they are well-liked by their other tuxemon or by their active tuxemon
So far we have only gone with the item used, the HP of the tuxemon and conditions affecting the tuxemon - and at the moment there is only one item, so that is effectively static.
ShadowApex set up the following system:
The catch likelihood is compared to a random number between 0 and 1,000. If the result is lower than the catch likelihood, the capture is successful.
((HP Lost/Total HP) * 1,000) + 150 if affected by a condition + the Power of the item used (100 for a regular Capture Device)
The only change I would make is limiting the +150 to negative conditions.
In a lot of catching games, there's a pause before the result is declared - perhaps with the Capture Device shaking, beeping, etc., a number of times based on the probability of the capture succeeding.
This adds tension and excitement, but also provides feedback: if you keep getting just one beep before the Capture Device fails, your capture chances are low.
A simple way to do this is to take the square root, cube root or so on of the capture chance, and test that two, three or four times. If it succeeds each time, then the capture is successful.
For example, if a tuxemon has an 80% chance of being captured, and three successes are required, then the chance for each should be 93%. If the random number generator produces 13, 82 and 55, for example, the capture is successful, but if it produces 13, 82 and 99 it is unsuccessful - and if it produces 98 on the first result, it doesn't continue testing for success.
There are a few other ways that capturing could work instead:
* One shot: Neo Monsters doesn't have any items in combat. Instead, you can attempt to capture each individual monster only once. This is a great way of creating tension: do I keep lowering their health further but risk knocking them out, or do I go now but have a greater risk of failure?* Test of skill: In this case, you have to win a test of skill like playing a round of blackjack, or clicking a button at the right time. The more damage you do to the tuxemon/better item you use, the easier the test of skill is.* Separate process: There could be a separate way of capturing tuxemon that is unrelated to battle. For example, defeated tuxemon could drop eggs in battle that can be hatched (like in Monster Sanctuary), or there could be a separate location you go to just for catching - no battling required.