[SPOILERS] Woe and fusion

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By rsg167 22 Jul 2015 23:51

Member · 37 comments

So, I was baking an idea in my head for the storyline. It's ROT13-encoded below. Just in case it is implemented, I don't want to spoil the secret for hapless players.

Jr xrrc gur zbafgre shfvba zrpunavp n frperg.

Jura gur cynlre gbccyrf bire unys gur Terng Pngurqeny'f cvyynef, n ercerfragngvir bs Tvbinaav nccebnpurf.  Ur punyyratrf gur cynlre -- n hfhny guvat sbe n obff gb qb -- ohg uvf zbafgre vf n shfvba.  Naq shfvbaf ner ernyyl fgebat.  Yvxr, fghpx-ba-gur-fnzr-onggyr-guerr-qnlf fgebat.

Rirel abj naq gura, gur obff'f shfrq zbafgre rzbgrf:

"EBPXGREN fuviref."

Vg gheaf bhg gung shfrq zbafgref jvyy bppnfvbanyyl ercynpr n zbir jvgu fuvirevat. Vs lbh'ir frra Ebznav sebz YbM: Znwben'f Znfx nsgre Gurl trg ure, lbh nyernql xabj jung V'z tbvat sbe.

Vs n shfrq zbafgre zrrgf gur ribyhgvba erdhverzragf bs rvgure bs vgf onfr zbafgref, vg jvyy sbetrg nyy vgf zbirf naq orpbzr haerfcbafvir gb cynlre pbzznaqf.  Vg jvyy whfg qb abguvat.

Urer pbzrf na vzcbegnag cynlre qrpvfvba.

1. Fubhyq V xrrc svtugvat jvgu zl abezny ghkrzbaf, rira gubhtu vg'f ernyyl uneq?
2. Be, fubhyq V shfr zl ghkrzbaf, pbafvtavat gurz gb n oebxra rkvfgrapr ohg orvat fgebat rabhtu gb cybj guebhtu Tvbinaav'f sbeprf?

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By Sanglorian 23 Oct 2015 11:11

Champion · 493 comments

That's an interesting idea. I do feel like encoding isn't worth it at this stage - I feel like the nature of open development is that the spoilers are going to be there if people look for it.

That said:

Vf gurer n jnl gb vzcyrzrag gur zretvat bs gjb Ghkrzba va gur pbzchgre cebtenz? V unir n srryvat gung vg jbhyq ybbx cerggl onq vs gur pbzchgre gevrf gb qb vg.

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By ShadowApex 23 Oct 2015 17:23

Lead Developer · 374 comments
Sanglorian wrote

I do feel like encoding isn't worth it at this stage - I feel like the nature of open development is that the spoilers are going to be there if people look for it.

I added a [SPOILERS] tag to this topic so we can discuss this idea a little more openly, and without having to use ROT13-decoding for each response. This should deter people who want to avoid potential game spoilers from accidentally viewing this topic. For any future writing topics, you can feel free to include this tag in the topic title.

rsg167 wrote

Urer pbzrf na vzcbegnag cynlre qrpvfvba.

1. Fubhyq V xrrc svtugvat jvgu zl abezny ghkrzbaf, rira gubhtu vg'f ernyyl uneq?
2. Be, fubhyq V shfr zl ghkrzbaf, pbafvtavat gurz gb n oebxra rkvfgrapr ohg orvat fgebat rabhtu gb cybj guebhtu Tvbinaav'f sbeprf?

I really love the idea of making big decisions like this, and especially giving the fusions an important role to play that may be critical to the story, instead of something that's just thrown in. I think there's some problems I could see though:

1. I feel this would promote players to just use "throw-away" monsters for fusions. Catch a monster in the wild and level them up a little bit, then fuse them for a certain battle and throw them away when they can't be used any more.

2. I think this would also have a negative affect on multiplayer. In multiplayer battles, everyone would need to resort to fusions to have the fighting power to win a match. This would essentially make all non-fused monsters not viable for multiplayer, and decrease the diversity of teams.

I think the general idea of fusions used as a plot device for the main antagonist is great, so long as we can work around those problems. Even making the fusions look somewhat grotesque would add to the feeling that fusing monsters might be morally wrong.

Sanglorian wrote

Vf gurer n jnl gb vzcyrzrag gur zretvat bs gjb Ghkrzba va gur pbzchgre cebtenz? V unir n srryvat gung vg jbhyq ybbx cerggl onq vs gur pbzchgre gevrf gb qb vg.

I'm not quite sure what you meant here, but there currently is code that I've written that will automatically fuse two monster sprites together. The code works similarly to Alex Onsager's Pokemon fusion site: http://pokemon.alexonsager.net/

As long as the "faces" and "bodies" of each monster are clearly defined, the result can look very good. I'd be open to a sort of "manual" fusing though.


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By Sanglorian 23 Oct 2015 22:16

Champion · 493 comments
ShadowApex wrote

I'm not quite sure what you meant here, but there currently is code that I've written that will automatically fuse two monster sprites together. The code works similarly to Alex Onsager's Pokemon fusion site: http://pokemon.alexonsager.net/

As long as the "faces" and "bodies" of each monster are clearly defined, the result can look very good. I'd be open to a sort of "manual" fusing though.

Ah, neat. Are the faces resized to suit the bodies? That must deviate from the 64x64 pixel standard, right? And a face could overhang beyond the "box" of the 64x64 pixels? (E.g. if a long-necked, small-faced tuxemon gets a long face).

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By ShadowApex 26 Oct 2015 04:48

Lead Developer · 374 comments

Yes, the faces are resized to fit the bodies. If playing on a resolution higher than the native 240 x 160, the scaling works quite nicely, although we may need to look into other techniques to make the fusions look good for some monsters.

In regards to the overhang, there's three metrics that are used: head size, face size, and face position. The face size can actually be larger than the head size, which would allow monsters with big mouths, etc. to have some overhang. If the face position is very close to the edges of the image, then yes, it could overhang the 64x64 size of monsters, which would not be good. We'll need to do some manual checks to make sure that doesn't happen.

If you want some more insight into exactly how it works, check out Alex Onsager's blog post about it which I based Tuxemon's fusion code from: http://www.alexonsager.net/post/1022784 … the-scenes


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By rsg167 29 Oct 2015 20:30

Member · 37 comments
ShadowApex wrote

I really love the idea of making big decisions like this, and especially giving the fusions an important role to play that may be critical to the story, instead of something that's just thrown in. I think there's some problems I could see though:

1. I feel this would promote players to just use "throw-away" monsters for fusions. Catch a monster in the wild and level them up a little bit, then fuse them for a certain battle and throw them away when they can't be used any more.

I never thought of that.  yikes Yes, many players would probably start doing that. I don't think it's bad, though. Players would be able to see things from the villain's perspective. What are the benefits of fusion? What are the drawbacks? Then they could come to their own conclusions.

Throw-away monsters could be a strategy for players who are only interested in the storyline. It would be the "easy mode", if you will.

ShadowApex wrote

2. I think this would also have a negative affect on multiplayer. In multiplayer battles, everyone would need to resort to fusions to have the fighting power to win a match. This would essentially make all non-fused monsters not viable for multiplayer, and decrease the diversity of teams.

I agree completely. One possible workaround is to have the players agree on a "battle ruleset":

  • All's Fair - fusion monsters have boosted stats
  • Weak Fusions - fusion monsters don't have boosted stats
  • No Fusions - only natural monsters allowed

You can only fight with someone if you both agree on a ruleset.

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By ShadowApex 3 Nov 2015 08:03

Lead Developer · 374 comments

I think that the inclusion of combat rules for multiplayer is a pretty good way to get around those problems.

In terms of doing this for single player, I'm still not quite sure. I'd love to hear some more community feedback about this idea to see what everyone thinks about it. There'll need to be some extra systems in place to implement the temporary nature of the fusions and use the boosted/non-boosted battle ruleset.


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By Sanglorian 27 Feb 2016 07:59

Champion · 493 comments

I keep coming to this and wondering what the ROTC13 text says, so here it is:

We keep the monster fusion mechanic a secret.

When the player topples over half the Great Cathedral's pillars, a representative of Giovanni approaches.  He challenges the player -- a usual thing for a boss to do -- but his monster is a fusion.  And fusions are really strong.  Like, stuck-on-the-same-battle-three-days strong.

Every now and then, the boss's fused monster emotes:

"ROCKTERA shivers."

It turns out that fused monsters will occasionally replace a move with shivering. If you've seen Romani from LoZ: Majora's Mask after They get her, you already know what I'm going for.

If a fused monster meets the evolution requirements of either of its base monsters, it will forget all its moves and become unresponsive to player commands.  It will just do nothing.

Here comes an important player decision.

1. Should I keep fighting with my normal tuxemons, even though it's really hard?
2. Or, should I fuse my tuxemons, consigning them to a broken existence but being strong enough to plow through Giovanni's forces?

My reply:

Is there a way to implement the merging of two Tuxemon in the computer program? I have a feeling that it would look pretty bad if the computer tries to do it.