Dex Thread

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By Leo 31 Jan 2016 23:27

Moderator · 70 comments

Since the major points for the setting of Tuxemon seem agreed upon, we can have a thread concerning the Dex of the game.
Most contribitions are a bit scattered, and tend to different directions. It's time to set the general outline for the Dex.

What do you want for Tuxemon? What do you expect for the artstyle, more fantasy-looking creatures, cuter creatures? 

There is also the question about the possibilities on fusion, and the proposition of chimeras (see thread: https://forum.tuxemon.org/thread.php?id=97).

Pics related (a mix of what has already been proposed for the game and some new ideas).
My proposed set of starters is the trio kingfisher/iguana/rockitten. Maybe there should be five starter since there are only five elements?

tuxemon4_zpsnvxqvote.jpg
tuxemon3_zpsr6sf4hkw.jpg
tuxemon5_zpslwc8ldao.jpg
tuxemon6_zpsxfkyduo4.jpg

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By ShadowApex 2 Feb 2016 06:45

Lead Developer · 374 comments

Again, fantastic artwork here Leo.

Leo wrote

My proposed set of starters is the trio kingfisher/iguana/rockitten. Maybe there should be five starter since there are only five elements?

I too think that we should have five starters. Having three would seem off to me. We would still need a metal type and a wood type in addition to your proposed starters. I think your first suggested three look like great candidates.

Leo wrote

What do you want for Tuxemon? What do you expect for the artstyle, more fantasy-looking creatures, cuter creatures?

I think that we should definitely include a mix of cute and stylish looking creatures. Fantasy-style creatures would also look great with the current theme, but with a science fantasy flavor given that the inhabitants of Tuxemon are part of a simulated world. What would creatures look like if you set up an evolutionary simulation to run millions of generations by itself? What would other creatures look like who have been purposefully engineered?


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By tamashihoshi 2 Feb 2016 19:35

Champion · 251 comments
ShadowApex wrote

What would creatures look like if you set up an evolutionary simulation to run millions of generations by itself? What would other creatures look like who have been purposefully engineered?

I don't know why but I had to think of something like this!
596-image-Spore-Creature-Creator.jpg


... sorry, I'll show myself out.


We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when. But I know we'll meet again some sunny day!

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By Leo 2 Feb 2016 22:09

Moderator · 70 comments
ShadowApex wrote

I think that we should definitely include a mix of cute and stylish looking creatures. Fantasy-style creatures would also look great with the current theme, but with a science fantasy flavor given that the inhabitants of Tuxemon are part of a simulated world. What would creatures look like if you set up an evolutionary simulation to run millions of generations by itself? What would other creatures look like who have been purposefully engineered?

That mostly sums up the direction I'm trying to follow... the mechanical creatures should be used by the cathedral for surveillance, like the small satellite-birds.
"An evolutionary simulation to run millions of generations by itself"... isn't it nature?  yikes

We could have a trio of "legendaries" (something like that, say programs that play an important role in the world of Tuxemon) that could be based on voxel / vector / polygon?

That's already what I tried to convey

tamashihoshi wrote

I don't know why but I had to think of something like this!

We can be happy that you didn't post any of Spore's giant dwindling shlongs then... wink

By the way, what do you think of Sumobug?
It could have the caterpillar/coccoon as previous forms, and the scarab thing as alternate final form.
I tried to give it a bit more of the sumo attributes, like the typical hairdo. Are you happy with that?

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By tamashihoshi 3 Feb 2016 11:53

Champion · 251 comments
Leo wrote

We can be happy that you didn't post any of Spore's giant dwindling shlongs then... wink

By the way, what do you think of Sumobug?
It could have the caterpillar/coccoon as previous forms, and the scarab thing as alternate final form.
I tried to give it a bit more of the sumo attributes, like the typical hairdo. Are you happy with that?

I like the "new" Sumobug alot big_smile I'll update the sprites somewhen...
I also like your pre form suggestions. I might play a little with the colors when creating a sprite of that one; maybe we can get a little ghosty touch (because the eastern part of our world has lots of youkai stuff...)

about the scarab form: I wouldn't like it THAT much if the alternate sumobug would be a muscle-packed bug (a little). BUT, the following might be interesting:
Sumobug obviously has a special body, becoming so fat with just 1 evolution is special. The cathedral might be interested in such a trait and might modify some of the pre-sumobug-coccoons. With that modification a "new" sumobug would appear; that's the scarab. I'd give the scarab a little more technical style.
What do you think of that suggestions? I hope I could explain what I wanna; dun have much time right now and im writing fast big_smile

oh and the hairdo is AWESOME, also the face! I love it! <3 great job!


We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when. But I know we'll meet again some sunny day!

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By Sanglorian 3 Feb 2016 14:03

Champion · 501 comments

It's a real thrill to see you draw tuxemon that I've designed - thank you!

My preference is for tuxemon to feel very Pokemony - but a mix of many different styles probably fits in well with the collaborative nature of a project like this.

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By Leo 3 Feb 2016 22:09

Moderator · 70 comments

@Tamashihoshi
About the colors, don't hesitate, most creatures should have a few color palettes. So don't hesitate to make multiple versions, and try different things.
Branching evolution paths are quite popular in the pkmn games, and will be useful in the gameplay, which explain the scarab thing. If you don't like it too much, we can put it in another evolution line and give sumobug another "brother". Do you have any suggestion?
For the backstory, it could do the job. A lot of things are still undecided, but it will be pretty cool to fill the dex with such info to give more depth to the world.

@Sanglorian
I'm happy that you like it. You have some good ideas, and it's nice that you give explicit references for the inspiration behind your designs. Do you have any specific remarks and/or requests for the lines of your creatures? Do you like having 'foxmoke' and 'foxfire' ? Do you have any idea for a stronger form in the line of Nudiflot?
>My preference is for tuxemon to feel very Pokemony
Do you think there are already things that push the boundaries too much, or is this direction cool with you?

A few general remarks:
- If some design is too complex for a 64x64 sprite, it's OK to simplify it, we should prioritize the look of the sprites (since it's what players will see the most). If that happens, I'll look into it and may change the concept accordingly.
- If you want to do a sprite for some creature you can ask me for the line art that you can use as a base. It should be ready quickly.
- If something looks wrong on one of my drawing, it may be a mistake! Feel ready to correct/ignore such things.
- Don't hesitate to do multiple versions, especially for the palettes. Living creatures are not industry processed, so its normal to have variations.
- Be careful when starting a sprite: the creature should look to the lower-left corner of the screen, and the light should come from the top-left corner. Some concepts may need to be flipped and the lightning fixed!

Since sprite do take some time to do, when you have a good idea you can simply post some draft along with an explanation. For now I prioritize things where the design works well, some ideas may take more time and exploration.

Anyway, don't hesitate to ask or comment about anything.

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By Leo 5 Feb 2016 23:47

Moderator · 70 comments

Some proposal for the metal starter (the bear things) and the wood starter (the donkey turns epic unicorn thing).
Otherwise, there's a better version of the (proposed) iguana starter and some polishing of older things. The Whale form of Dolfin (doleaf?) is based on Tamashihoshi's idea.
There could be an oasis in the game where there's an island that is a gigantic specimen of the whale. Also the palm tree monster could mascarade as trees, and attack you in the overworld...

Any comments? Some of these designs seem to work better than some others.

@Tamashihoshi The samurai bug is a potential Sumobug brother (to replace the scarab). Thoughts?

tuxemon7_zpsycl5fndu.jpg
tuxemon1_zpsyrjzojuk.jpg

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By Sanglorian 6 Feb 2016 08:11

Champion · 501 comments

@Sanglorian
I'm happy that you like it. You have some good ideas, and it's nice that you give explicit references for the inspiration behind your designs. Do you have any specific remarks and/or requests for the lines of your creatures? Do you like having 'foxmoke' and 'foxfire' ? Do you have any idea for a stronger form in the line of Nudiflot?

I like the fiery fox that you drew - it looks great. I'd actually envisaged Foxfire (which I think you call Foxmoke to make room for a fiery fox evolution - good idea) as a raccoon/red panda with the smoke forming a big fluffy banded raccoon tail - but it's interesting to see another take on it.

I do have some ideas for Nudiflot evolutions - I'll dig them up, scan them and let you have a look smile

My absolute favourite of your drawings is Moloch - the back-flower looks exactly like I imagined it.

>My preference is for tuxemon to feel very Pokemony
Do you think there are already things that push the boundaries too much, or is this direction cool with you?

One thing that I haven't discussed here before is that I think it'd be great if the fakemon community - people who invent their own Pokemon - used free and open licences (like Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike) to make their creations available for everyone to use and build upon. So when I see people contributing monsters to Tuxemon, I have an ulterior motive: some of them would be great for this fakemon project too!

By that standard, however, most of the Tuxemon submissions wouldn't fit the bill, because Pokemon is a very distinctive art style.

But that's not to say that I have a problem with them, because lots of things work for Tuxemon that aren't going to work for this related project. And having a working free and open source Pokemon-like game will encourage more games like it, regardless of how Pokemony tuxemon themselves are!

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By benneti 6 Feb 2016 08:18

Member · 38 comments

I think your tuxemon all look great  smile

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By Leo 6 Feb 2016 09:36

Moderator · 70 comments

@Sanglorian:
But you know, the pkmn style is two things, a set of constraints on design, and an art-style (Sugimori's). Most of my submissions mostly fit the constraints, without matching the art-style. If you were to do draw them à la Sugimori, you wouldn't have to change too much to have a very pokemony feel.

@benneti: Thanks! Don't hesitate to contribute comments or ideas!

By the way, one easy way to contribute would be to make some research on Egyptian mythology, fauna and flora to find some interesting things that could be used for designs. Unusual species, cool looking trees...

For example we need to have some camel line, that would appear as transport animals in the overworld. What interesting elements could we use to get a cool creature design? Same thing for scorpions, etc.

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By tamashihoshi 6 Feb 2016 14:25

Champion · 251 comments
Leo wrote

@Tamashihoshi The samurai bug is a potential Sumobug brother (to replace the scarab). Thoughts?

Looks good! Both have similarities about their cultural background and body.. I think samurai bug is better smile
thank you very much!


We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when. But I know we'll meet again some sunny day!

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By tamashihoshi 7 Feb 2016 11:38

Champion · 251 comments

Im gonna throw 2 ideas in this thread

Idea number 1: Bugnin

9Fuw9gB.png

An alternate design for samuraibug... with this style he can keep his mask from his preforms on. Also he can still have the same body proportions like sumobug (aka fat). What do you guys think?

Now on to  idea 2: Asudopt

EFYjJ9t.png

This is one of those legendary tuxemon.. but this one isnt catchable. Asudopt only has relevance to the story, but i didnt think of in what way (since this txmn is just an idea). Asudopt's name comes from "sudo apt-get".... the a from "apt-get", then sudo and then the pt of apt-get. Asudopt resembles "the start and the end", something like life and death, day and night, creation and destruction.. or sudo apt-get install and sudo apt-get remove.
Design stuff:
- long beak like that king penguin thingy
- beak grows over eyes and turn into horns
- beak covers eyes; asudopt doesnt need to see, asudopt knows
- night/day visible under wings; asudopt stands between those two

This tuxemon might have created the world or something, or might exist in many different places and times at the same time just to keep the balance... but dunno

so.. yeah.. what do you think? xD


We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when. But I know we'll meet again some sunny day!

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By Cavalcadeur 7 Feb 2016 11:59

Member · 46 comments

Well ... I made few sprite with your draw. I posted them in the topic cavalcadeur's stuff and then I realised it would be better if I post them here. So there is a monkey bot and a samuraï bug.
monkeyBot.png
The monkey's hands are a bit hard to make ...
samura%C3%AFBug.png
The samuraï looks like a wesnoth's sprite but I enjoy his posture.

I'm working on the wood donkey right now I'll post it soon.

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By Cavalcadeur 7 Feb 2016 16:47

Member · 46 comments

Here is the donkey.
donkey.png

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By Sanglorian 7 Feb 2016 21:59

Champion · 501 comments
tamashihoshi wrote

Now on to  idea 2: Asudopt

http://imgur.com/EFYjJ9t.png

...

so.. yeah.. what do you think? xD

I like him! I think all tuxemon should be catchable, but other than that I like the design, and the name is very clever. And I think it's good that although it's legendary, it's based on a rather less impressive bird - the penguin - than say an eagle.

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By Leo 8 Feb 2016 22:50

Moderator · 70 comments

@tamashihoshi
Bugnin seems to work pretty well. It could be the second Sumobug 'brother', which would be enough to wrap up this evolutionary line. I'll draw it in the next batch of creatures.

Concerning Asudopt, we should probably wait a bit. What we need now is some depth (e.g. cultural references) and some coherence. So we should get a bunch of ideas rolling, a fairly big list organized in:
- General computing references (Turing and other personalities, Logic, ...)
- Free Software references (Gnu and penguins...)
- Egypt-related references
The mix should probably be 25/25/50 (fifty percent of the creatures should be relatable to Egypt). Of course there will be some overlap, and these percentages are not really indicative, but it should be the current objective. So right now the most important thing is to gather some references (on animals,  mythology, etc) and get the list going (a bit like Sangloran does on his creature submissions, with a list of inspirations).

It's cool that there are some nice sprite going on, but there's a major problem: the size.
Cavalcadeur, the donkey is 4 times bigger than the samurai.
Tamashihoshi, the caterpillar is way bigger than Sumobug (although it's a beautiful sprite!).
If you mess some part up it's not a problem because it can be fixed (like the hands of the monkey), but if you mess the size, the whole thing basically needs to be scrapped (because with that few pixels you can't really resize). Only the big creatures should take the whole 64x64 square.
Please check Sanglorian's thread containing a few tutorials on sprite making (https://forum.tuxemon.org/thread.php?id=66). There is a lot of useful information on these links.

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By Sanglorian 9 Feb 2016 06:44

Champion · 501 comments

I think the issue of sizing the tuxemon is a bit tricky, because some of our well-loved and well-publicised tuxemon - like Fruitera and Bamboon - also take up the whole 64px instead of a smaller section. On the other hand, others - like Rockitten itself - follow the rule of smaller monsters taking up a smaller part of the allocated space.

So people in the project haven't had clear guidance about whether to use the whole 64px or not. (My preference is for smaller tuxemon to use a smaller part of the 64px). This would be a good thing to discuss as a community - see what everyone thinks, and what size range we think is appropriate. (For example, Fakemon spriters can get quite strict about sizes, but they're mostly spriting from the Gen V 96x96px base, where they have more room to operate in!)

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By tamashihoshi 9 Feb 2016 07:44

Champion · 251 comments
Leo wrote

@tamashihoshi
Bugnin seems to work pretty well. It could be the second Sumobug 'brother', which would be enough to wrap up this evolutionary line. I'll draw it in the next batch of creatures.

Nah, nevermind bugnin. Bugnin shouldn't be in the same family; I've noticed too late that samuraibug got sprites and was acceted already so lets ignore bugnin for now. Bugnin might be an idea for later, maybe not bugnin but pannin (panda+ronin) which lives in the same area as those sumo/samurai bugs.. but nvm these plz, they aren't that important for now smile

Leo wrote

Concerning Asudopt, we should probably wait a bit. What we need now is some depth (e.g. cultural references) and some coherence. So we should get a bunch of ideas rolling, a fairly big list organized in:
- General computing references (Turing and other personalities, Logic, ...)
- Free Software references (Gnu and penguins...)
- Egypt-related references
The mix should probably be 25/25/50 (fifty percent of the creatures should be relatable to Egypt). Of course there will be some overlap, and these percentages are not really indicative, but it should be the current objective. So right now the most important thing is to gather some references (on animals,  mythology, etc) and get the list going (a bit like Sangloran does on his creature submissions, with a list of inspirations).

sounds sensible (I hope I wrote that right!)... I need to get on wikipedia somewhen xD do you maybe have a few links you could post in the "general art discussion" where I can see some egyptian art and mythology? Or should I just google for it, hoping that google doesn't lie?

Leo wrote

It's cool that there are some nice sprite going on, but there's a major problem: the size.
Tamashihoshi, the caterpillar is way bigger than Sumobug (although it's a beautiful sprite!).
If you mess some part up it's not a problem because it can be fixed (like the hands of the monkey), but if you mess the size, the whole thing basically needs to be scrapped (because with that few pixels you can't really resize). Only the big creatures should take the whole 64x64 square.

whoops, my mistake! big_smile didn't notice! gonna fix that later ^^

Leo wrote

(although it's a beautiful sprite!).

sVTbc0j.gif


We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when. But I know we'll meet again some sunny day!

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By Leo 9 Feb 2016 10:35

Moderator · 70 comments
tamashihoshi wrote

sounds sensible (I hope I wrote that right!)... I need to get on wikipedia somewhen xD do you maybe have a few links you could post in the "general art discussion" where I can see some egyptian art and mythology? Or should I just google for it, hoping that google doesn't lie?

You mean 'sensitive'?

Well, with this you will discover how poor the internet is if you want to learn something that is not computer-science/math...
Besides Google, you can have much better luck with books (like, on paper) - either check your local or university library, or cheap bookstores.
I go to bookstores that sell books for a bargain, where you can find a lot of technical books that are great for drawing references; similarly history/culture books are fairly easy to find on the cheap.
*cough* libgen.io can help too *cough cough*

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By tamashihoshi 9 Feb 2016 21:41

Champion · 251 comments
Leo wrote

You mean 'sensitive'?

erm.. yes? -pokerface-

Leo wrote

Well, with this you will discover how poor the internet is if you want to learn something that is not computer-science/math...
Besides Google, you can have much better luck with books (like, on paper) - either check your local or university library, or cheap bookstores.
I go to bookstores that sell books for a bargain, where you can find a lot of technical books that are great for drawing references; similarly history/culture books are fairly easy to find on the cheap.
*cough* libgen.io can help too *cough cough*

Books... Right, I forgot about those. I hope I'll find something good ^^

Thanks for the link! With libgen.io I get lots of information but I doubt it will help me here in germany (unless I'll buy some of those books); I'll just go to some library and ask if they have egyptian culture stuff smile


We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when. But I know we'll meet again some sunny day!

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By josepharaoh99 9 Feb 2016 23:01

Champion · 295 comments

Hey, guys! All of you have been coming up with some awesome sprites smile
I have one of the magnet/robot fish:
BDHp88r.png

Last edited by josepharaoh99 (9 Feb 2016 23:01)


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By Leo 10 Feb 2016 20:50

Moderator · 70 comments

@Cavalcadeur:
I've taken up to improve your last sprites. Besides the generic comments made elsewhere, what is important to look at is to align features (like the front and back legs), especially when the creature is small, because any dis-alignment becomes glaringly obvious.
Honestly, the turtle was a difficult sprite, and the samurai bug was horribly hard. Maybe you should start with easier creatures?
I'll let it there, but don't hesitate to ask for more precise advice.

Also, the samurai now has fly-like wings because it lacked a bit of bug-like features.

dts_zpsflnswor3.png

Here's a draft of the five starters together. Thoughts? Comments?
start_zpsb8ge811j.jpg

Last edited by Leo (11 Feb 2016 20:03)

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By Cavalcadeur 15 Feb 2016 20:28

Member · 46 comments
Leo wrote

@tamashihoshi
It's cool that there are some nice sprite going on, but there's a major problem: the size.
Cavalcadeur, the donkey is 4 times bigger than the samurai.

I made another try but smaller since it's just a baby bear.
nounours.png

Leo wrote

If you mess some part up it's not a problem because it can be fixed (like the hands of the monkey), but if you mess the size, the whole thing basically needs to be scrapped (because with that few pixels you can't really resize). Only the big creatures should take the whole 64x64 square.

The monkey is too big, he's taking the whole square. I don't know if he's a base tuxemon or an evolution but I think he was not supposed to be that big.

I didn't pay attention to size before. I'll make some effort. Thanks for your advices but don't hesitate to criticize. I'm a beginner in pixel art so I need to improve myself a lot.

Last edited by Cavalcadeur (2 Jul 2016 18:05)

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By Sanglorian 15 Feb 2016 21:58

Champion · 501 comments
Cavalcadeur wrote

I made another try but smaller since it's just a baby bear.
http://home.tolokoban.org/memora/wp-con … unours.png

That's very cute, great job!

There's only a couple of things that I'd fiddle with:

  • Sel-Out: This is where you outline parts of the sprite with a dark colour, but not one as dark as black, as a form of highlighting. (Discussed here.)
  • Eyes: Because there's four pixels for the eyes, you have room to do a common pixel art eye, which is row one: bright pixel, dark pixel, row two: dark pixel, neither dark-nor-light pixel. (Or vice versa for the other side). I think this will make it look brighter and more alive.
    It's used on Pikachu's sprites.

He has a home on the wiki.